Comments on: The Charlatan and the DWP http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/ Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:22:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ceedee http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27420 ceedee Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:36:31 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27420 Oopps: "Lie detectors are unlikely to be used in job centres after genuine benefits claimants were wrongly identified as "risky" during a pilot project." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7938447.stm<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27420','ceedee'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27420','ceedee','Oopps: \r\n\"Lie detectors are unlikely to be used in job centres after genuine benefits claimants were wrongly identified as \"risky\" during a pilot project.\"\r\nhttp:\/\/news.bbc.co.uk\/1\/hi\/england\/nottinghamshire\/7938447.stm'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Oopps:
“Lie detectors are unlikely to be used in job centres after genuine benefits claimants were wrongly identified as “risky” during a pilot project.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7938447.stm
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]]> By: Charles http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27419 Charles Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:07:23 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27419 Well, count us as mainstream media who have caught up on this - see http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/mar/12/voice-analysis-system-vra and followup blog post on Tony McNulty results (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/mar/12/voice-risk-analysis-lie-detection-benefits-government-results). Let us know if the NAO takes an interest...<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27419','Charles'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27419','Charles','Well, count us as mainstream media who have caught up on this - see http:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/technology\/2009\/mar\/12\/voice-analysis-system-vra and followup blog post on Tony McNulty results (http:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/technology\/blog\/2009\/mar\/12\/voice-risk-analysis-lie-detection-benefits-government-results).\r\n\r\nLet us know if the NAO takes an interest...'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Well, count us as mainstream media who have caught up on this – see http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/mar/12/voice-analysis-system-vra and followup blog post on Tony McNulty results (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/mar/12/voice-risk-analysis-lie-detection-benefits-government-results).

Let us know if the NAO takes an interest…

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]]> By: Uponnothing http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27418 Uponnothing Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:30:58 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27418 Interesting post. Seems strange that the mainstream media haven't picked up on this. Perhaps they have, but they like the idea of those on benefits being given a tougher time I guess.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27418','Uponnothing'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27418','Uponnothing','Interesting post. Seems strange that the mainstream media haven\'t picked up on this. Perhaps they have, but they like the idea of those on benefits being given a tougher time I guess.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Interesting post. Seems strange that the mainstream media haven’t picked up on this. Perhaps they have, but they like the idea of those on benefits being given a tougher time I guess.
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]]> By: Liking Laski, But Only The Early Stuff http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27416 Liking Laski, But Only The Early Stuff Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:40:40 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27416 MoT, My friend, Sam Tarry, is running to be chair of Young Labour. You may find him interesting, as he's worked for Unlock Democracy, is an Anti-BNP activist whose lived almost all his life in Barking, and has had favorable reviews from Liberal Conspiracy. Anyway, we we're wondering if you'd like to talk to him as we're trying to get some Blog coverage. If you speak to him and think he's appalling, then by all means go ahead and trash, that's the risk we take. But I think your politics have quite a bit in common and it'd be a good conversation. thanks for considering LLBOTES<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27416','Liking Laski, But Only The Early Stuff'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27416','Liking Laski, But Only The Early Stuff','MoT,\r\n\r\nMy friend, Sam Tarry, is running to be chair of Young Labour. You may find him interesting, as he\'s worked for Unlock Democracy, is an Anti-BNP activist whose lived almost all his life in Barking, and has had favorable reviews from Liberal Conspiracy.\r\n\r\nAnyway, we we\'re wondering if you\'d like to talk to him as we\'re trying to get some Blog coverage. If you speak to him and think he\'s appalling, then by all means go ahead and trash, that\'s the risk we take. But I think your politics have quite a bit in common and it\'d be a good conversation.\r\n\r\nthanks for considering\r\n\r\nLLBOTES'); return false;">Quote</a></div> MoT,

My friend, Sam Tarry, is running to be chair of Young Labour. You may find him interesting, as he’s worked for Unlock Democracy, is an Anti-BNP activist whose lived almost all his life in Barking, and has had favorable reviews from Liberal Conspiracy.

Anyway, we we’re wondering if you’d like to talk to him as we’re trying to get some Blog coverage. If you speak to him and think he’s appalling, then by all means go ahead and trash, that’s the risk we take. But I think your politics have quite a bit in common and it’d be a good conversation.

thanks for considering

LLBOTES

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]]> By: Robert http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27413 Robert Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:47:47 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27413 Of course they do not work, but in America they use to be used by the FBI for new entrants, but so many failed it was removed, then the military removed them, so a new market had to be found, funny how Tony Blair brought them here the same Tony Blair that had a payment of $500,000 payment for his greatness in Israel two weeks ago. The fact is voice stress analyzers do not work because anyone who phones up the DWP, would end up failing because your blood boils at the stupidity of this group. I phoned up with a broken back a spinal lesion and both legs in plaster after my accident, to be told are you sure you cannot work.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27413','Robert'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27413','Robert','Of course they do not work, but in America they use to be used by the FBI for new entrants, but so many failed it was removed, then the military removed them, so a new market had to be found, funny how Tony Blair brought them here the same Tony Blair that had a payment of $500,000 payment for his greatness in Israel two weeks ago.\r\n\r\nThe fact is voice stress analyzers do not work because anyone who phones up the DWP, would end up failing because your blood boils at the stupidity of this group. I phoned up with a broken back a spinal lesion and both legs in plaster after my accident, to be told are you sure you cannot work.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Of course they do not work, but in America they use to be used by the FBI for new entrants, but so many failed it was removed, then the military removed them, so a new market had to be found, funny how Tony Blair brought them here the same Tony Blair that had a payment of $500,000 payment for his greatness in Israel two weeks ago.

The fact is voice stress analyzers do not work because anyone who phones up the DWP, would end up failing because your blood boils at the stupidity of this group. I phoned up with a broken back a spinal lesion and both legs in plaster after my accident, to be told are you sure you cannot work.

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]]> By: Obnoxio The Clown http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27411 Obnoxio The Clown Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:14:53 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27411 As someone who has actually done some work around biometric systems, I can tell you that they just don't work. Voice is particularly prone to false results and I wouldn't trust it for anything.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27411','Obnoxio The Clown'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27411','Obnoxio The Clown','As someone who has actually done some work around biometric systems, I can tell you that they just don\'t work. Voice is particularly prone to false results and I wouldn\'t trust it for anything.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> As someone who has actually done some work around biometric systems, I can tell you that they just don’t work. Voice is particularly prone to false results and I wouldn’t trust it for anything.
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]]> By: Chris Paul http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27408 Chris Paul Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:57:13 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27408 [800 lines of code may or may not be powerful and important. That's not a line to go with in any seriousness. When I learned we used to cut cards for programs and data. And less was more back then. I did it for wages for a while. Oh my god. Less was more.] And, presumably, this charlatan solution to the non-critical-problem of finding housing benefit cheats would compare the voice when Jacqui Smith or Chris Grayling or Charles Kennedy was explaining why Kanye West was not on their iPod with their scarcely credible explanation of their ramped up second home allowance ... and then find the system guilty of producing contrivance, accountancy, and jeopardy.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27408','Chris Paul'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27408','Chris Paul','[800 lines of code may or may not be powerful and important. That\'s not a line to go with in any seriousness. When I learned we used to cut cards for programs and data. And less was more back then. I did it for wages for a while. Oh my god. Less was more.]\r\n\r\nAnd, presumably, this charlatan solution to the non-critical-problem of finding housing benefit cheats would compare the voice when Jacqui Smith or Chris Grayling or Charles Kennedy was explaining why Kanye West was not on their iPod with their scarcely credible explanation of their ramped up second home allowance ... and then find the system guilty of producing contrivance, accountancy, and jeopardy.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> [800 lines of code may or may not be powerful and important. That's not a line to go with in any seriousness. When I learned we used to cut cards for programs and data. And less was more back then. I did it for wages for a while. Oh my god. Less was more.]

And, presumably, this charlatan solution to the non-critical-problem of finding housing benefit cheats would compare the voice when Jacqui Smith or Chris Grayling or Charles Kennedy was explaining why Kanye West was not on their iPod with their scarcely credible explanation of their ramped up second home allowance … and then find the system guilty of producing contrivance, accountancy, and jeopardy.

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]]> By: Neuroskeptic http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27397 Neuroskeptic Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:42:40 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27397 See <a href="http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2009/02/lies-libel-and-love-detection.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for my take on this.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27397','Neuroskeptic'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27397','Neuroskeptic','See <a href=\"http:\/\/neuroskeptic.blogspot.com\/2009\/02\/lies-libel-and-love-detection.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">here<\/a> for my take on this.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> See here for my take on this.
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]]> By: Snake Oil « Alternate Seat of TYR http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27387 Snake Oil « Alternate Seat of TYR Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:52:22 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27387 [...] 7, 2009 in action, fisking, hacker, quackery, surveillance Look what the Ministry found. Remember the business with Harrow Borough Council and the secret Israeli lie detector? We [...]<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27387','Snake Oil « Alternate Seat of TYR'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27387','Snake Oil « Alternate Seat of TYR','[...] 7, 2009 in action, fisking, hacker, quackery, surveillance Look what the Ministry found. Remember the business with Harrow Borough Council and the secret Israeli lie detector? We [...]'); return false;">Quote</a></div> [...] 7, 2009 in action, fisking, hacker, quackery, surveillance Look what the Ministry found. Remember the business with Harrow Borough Council and the secret Israeli lie detector? We [...]
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]]> By: Voice analysis software doesn’t work « Amused Cynicism http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27383 Voice analysis software doesn’t work « Amused Cynicism Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:20:31 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27383 [...] voice analysis software that was going to catch benefit cheats? Well guess what… it doesn’t work: In short, apart from scaring a few people into behaving a little more honestly, we reckoned that [...]<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27383','Voice analysis software doesn’t work « Amused Cynicism'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27383','Voice analysis software doesn’t work « Amused Cynicism','[...] voice analysis software that was going to catch benefit cheats? Well guess what… it doesn’t work: In short, apart from scaring a few people into behaving a little more honestly, we reckoned that [...]'); return false;">Quote</a></div> [...] voice analysis software that was going to catch benefit cheats? Well guess what… it doesn’t work: In short, apart from scaring a few people into behaving a little more honestly, we reckoned that [...]
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]]> By: Mary http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27380 Mary Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:19:34 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27380 Even taking it as read that his program can detect "stress" in a person's voice, it's a big leap from there to detecting fraud. If you're legitimately trying to get the DWP to give you benefits, chances are you've lost your job/acquired a disabling condition/are experiencing marital breakup/facing unplanned parenthood/etc <i>and</i> have no money - wouldn't that sort of situation make most people a bit stressed? Particularly when making a telephone call to the organisation that decides whether you and your dependants can have some money to survive on?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27380','Mary'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27380','Mary','Even taking it as read that his program can detect \"stress\" in a person\'s voice, it\'s a big leap from there to detecting fraud. If you\'re legitimately trying to get the DWP to give you benefits, chances are you\'ve lost your job\/acquired a disabling condition\/are experiencing marital breakup\/facing unplanned parenthood\/etc <i>and<\/i> have no money - wouldn\'t that sort of situation make most people a bit stressed? Particularly when making a telephone call to the organisation that decides whether you and your dependants can have some money to survive on?'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Even taking it as read that his program can detect “stress” in a person’s voice, it’s a big leap from there to detecting fraud. If you’re legitimately trying to get the DWP to give you benefits, chances are you’ve lost your job/acquired a disabling condition/are experiencing marital breakup/facing unplanned parenthood/etc and have no money – wouldn’t that sort of situation make most people a bit stressed? Particularly when making a telephone call to the organisation that decides whether you and your dependants can have some money to survive on?
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]]> By: Links and stuff for February 6th - Chicken Yoghurt http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/02/06/the-charlatan-and-the-dwp/comment-page-1/#comment-27379 Links and stuff for February 6th - Chicken Yoghurt Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:15:57 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/?p=2113#comment-27379 [...] The Charlatan and the DWP | Ministry of Truth - Remember lie detector tests for dole scroungers? Unity turns up the goods: 'As far as these researchers are being concerned, the public purse is being bilked to the tune of many hundreds of thousands of pounds for a system that looks, to them, like someone’s A level homework.' [...]<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('27379','Links and stuff for February 6th - Chicken Yoghurt'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('27379','Links and stuff for February 6th - Chicken Yoghurt','[...] The Charlatan and the DWP | Ministry of Truth - Remember lie detector tests for dole scroungers? Unity turns up the goods: 'As far as these researchers are being concerned, the public purse is being bilked to the tune of many hundreds of thousands of pounds for a system that looks, to them, like someone’s A level homework.' [...]'); return false;">Quote</a></div> [...] The Charlatan and the DWP | Ministry of Truth – Remember lie detector tests for dole scroungers? Unity turns up the goods: 'As far as these researchers are being concerned, the public purse is being bilked to the tune of many hundreds of thousands of pounds for a system that looks, to them, like someone’s A level homework.' [...]
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